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Bickering about the Blake Sea

Bea Don Kimi Orca MTW Nomad Blake Sea Blake Sea Group SLSA SLSC

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 06:16 PM

This morning when logging into SL I noticed an SLSA notice by Mark Twain White.

 

A Significant Discussion on SLSailng.Co forum

Tue, Feb 10 2015 10:20:04 PM PST

 

http://forum.slsaili...hp?topic=3917.0

 

Being the curious sort I went to have a look only to find it had already been moved, and not visible to anyone that is not a member there. So as a service to our members here,  I picked up the entire thread, and have posted it here for non - members of the forum to see.

 

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Bea Woodget:

By infrastructure, I mean stuff like start-lines and buoys.

 

I have in mind a project for several new (fun) sailing activities, which would require some special arrangements (not that much) in the positioning of one or two race lines.

An easy to do arrangement would permit multi purpose activities, thus a good utilization rate of the setup (not a "one shot" thing). 

 

Thus a few questions for those who already dealt with such needs:

 

In Blake Sea:

- is there a procedure for submitting to the committee (or group) the project(s)? (or to whom?)

- What is the decision making process? Who does decide, who are the members?

- What are the criteria?

- How long would it take?

Note: I am aware of an alternative way to do it, but I prefer to go into something more "official" and public.

 

On mainland:

- More or less the same questions: how we could proceed, who should we contact, what are the pre-requisites ... ?

 

Thank you”

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Orca Flotta:

Béa sweetie, I'm shocked. Don't you know the BSG group? They manage affairs in the Blake. I guess most of the active BSG members are gone by now, like Yuu, Jane and what do I know. But you can ask MTW or Nber, they will surely help you in the most friendly way.

On mainland you gotta go the official way with the Lab support ... or buzz Michael Linden. He's the boss of the LDPW (chief mole) and can assist you with small stuff like rezzing a startline or some buoys for you. But word of warning, he'll act as if it's suuuch a pain and ask you to go the offficial route and request assistance from LL the next time. Needless to remind him that he is LL.  ;)

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JoyofRLC Acker:

There are two things about Blake Id like to see if we can do something about.

 

First, the plethora of race buoys that has popped up in the last little while.   Almost every lay line now seems to have an irrelevant buoy or even a race line in the middle of it.   Hay had experimented with a buoys rezzing system in Sailors Cove (it had some issues, mainly occasional mid-race vanishing acts, so we stopped using it but  Im sure they could be resolved).

Obviously scheduling etc is quite an issue, in SC we always know what race etc is going on.

 

Second, the sea bed of Blake is extraordinarily uneven with a number of unmarked under-sea 'mountains', in supposedly open waters.  One might say one should know where they are, but its easy to forget and all to easy to run aground (in a big boat anyway!).   If there is agreement, Id suggest we ask the moles to get the dredger out.”

 

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kimi_o:

I know for a fact that Michael Linden will string you along for weeks and months without given any definitive answers to questions. He will also tell you that you must use SLSA as the managing group to do anything regarding start lines or whatever.

 

I have about 30 emails from him about such things. Seems to me you'll get nowhere.”

 

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Don:

SLSA governs nothing in SL as far as sailing is concerned nothing and lets leave it that way and make it known to Michael Linden . SLSA governs only one thing Land sales and the protection of it .

 

SLSC how ever is a community of sailors that has no ties to estate owners and if there was a group  that would watch over the Infrastructure it would be this group .

 

We have learned that involving any the Blake sea Group in Infrastructure   leads to walls going up trying to Capture all things sailing inside its borders even thou its been so polluted and mismanaged abused and profiteered by there greed driven leaders .

 

If there needs to be a group I say yes to SLSC or a general Infrastructure  group . Im sorry to say that the SLSA and Blake sea groups are so tainted and corruptted by the USS sailing sim owners and there views that none connected with these should or can be including especially MTW or Nber. In fact no officers of any USS Sailing sim , Clubs or landowners .

 

This should be our approach sorry to say but ts proven fact that the ghosts are real and the Machine exists that wants to control sailing for its own profit “

 

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kimi_o:

 

Quote from: Don Berithos on February 09, 2015, 11:09:12 AM

"SLSA governs nothing in SL as far as sailing is concerned nothing and lets leave it that way and make it known to Michael Linden . SLSA governs only one thing Land sales and the protection of it .

 

SLSC how ever is a community of sailors that has no ties to estate owners and if there was a group  that would watch over the Infrastructure it would be this group .

 

We have learned that involving any the Blake sea Group in Infrastructure   leads to walls going up trying to Capture all things sailing inside its borders even thou its been so polluted and mismanaged abused and profiteered by there greed driven leaders .

 

If there needs to be a group I say yes to SLSC or a general Infrastructure  group . Im sorry to say that the SLSA and Blake sea groups are so tainted and corruptted by the USS sailing sim owners and there views that none connected with these should or can be including especially MTW or Nber. In fact no officers of any USS Sailing sim , Clubs or landowners .

 

This should be our approach sorry to say but ts proven fact that the ghosts are real and the Machine exists that wants to control sailing for its own profit "

 

Don...

The problem that exists is that LL/Michael Linden will refuse to deal with a "not old and established" group. This is per his own words to me when enquiring about race lines in Gulf of Moles.

 

Essentially, they will only deal with SLSA, regardless of SLSA purportedly being an information society only.

 

I have made mention of that fact to Michael Linden, along with businesses and yacht clubs in the black sea using near copies of trademarked logos. It's all been brought to LL's attention.

 

Michael Linden/LL refuses to acknowledge what goes on there, or even to respond to the blatant TOU violations, presumably because of the money generated.

 

My suggestion is to boycott any and all businesses and events in black sea, and to not go there at all. If money and traffic is what talks, then let's just remove ours from the discourse. It might suck for some who have associations there, but if people see that being in bed with liars, cheats, and thieves comes with consequences, perhaps things will change.

 

We all have to understand that the wedge has been driven deep enough that even LL kowtows to an asshole that's supposed to be, by his own words, out of sailing. Never mind that he's meddled in racing affairs that aren't his concern after saying he's out of sailing. Forget the fact that they claim to be information purveyors only.

 

Look with open eyes and see what STILL goes on, and act on that information accordingly.”

 

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Don:

Ive been at this a long time . SLSA has no power Michael is wrong nor have I ever needed them to do anything with him .. SO lets not start throwing those rumors around shall we there is no governing body there . The gulf of moles has been a prick in his isde because elnegro bugged him to no end to get the boays and lines there ,,,

 

I agree drain the Blake Sea of any and all regattas  untill the blake sea group is dissolved and a indepent group of none landowners is formed to govern it . “

 

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kimi_o:

Don...

 

What I say is not a rumor. It's fact.

 

I have it in black and white that Michael Linden will not deal with anyone except SLSA. ElMegro's lines in GoM are under SLSA's banner. The third line in GoM is as well. If you don't believe me, go look for yourself.

 

As for myself, I won't go to BS anymore for any reason. Not to watch friends race, to sail my own boats, or whatever. I won't do business with people that have holdings there. I already refuse to sail boats purchased from businesses there. I won't even rez them.

 

I won't say anything against those that choose not to take that stand, but for the little that it's worth, it is my own little protest.”

 

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Don:

I will Talk to Mike because he needs to know SLSA does not montior mainland waters at all nor will they ever . He made the mistake of putting them in that group . A deal with the fucking Devil lets say . Give me the LM to them “

 

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kimi_o:

Don...

 

If you take it to Michael, he will tell you LL will not recognize any new group. Their story is that new groups have no track record for stability and as such they will not work in such a context.

 

Thusly, the only group they'll work with is attached to SLSA.

 

I know this because I've tried it already. The buck will be passed, and passed again, until they just refuse to answer any questions.

 

The level of destruction wrought by BS people is amazing.”

 

 

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Bea:

The initial post/questions were not intended to start another battle but to get some answers and solutions.

 

So maybe we could consider two different cases:

 

- Blake Sea, for which I hope someone from the BS Group will answer.

 

- Mainland, for which it seems something has to be done. The inventory as suggested by Don seems a good starting point.

 

Few personal comments:

 

- I also think it is not the role of SLSA, furthermore since the large majority of active sailors and sailing "doers" have joined the SLSC.

- It makes sense to say that the BSG has to deal with Blake Sea (and only BS).

 

However, there are people in those groups who may have good advices, and goodwill to help with their experience and contacts at Linden Lab maybe.

 

About Michael Linden, I believe that if he receives several hundreds/thousands of the same email, from hundreds/thousands of avatars, bcc LL management/PR, then they could be inclined to think about it ... (Something I successfully tested few weeks ago with a journalist @ Fox News, who received 20.000 emails (and his Press Relation as well), until he apologized in a direct live. That works, a question of organization. And on "SLSC having no track record", we have plenty of very valid arguments and evidences, historical and actual, so they will open their eyes and ears. Also a question of organization and preparation. Individual attempts will never work.”

 

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kimi_o:

Bea...

 

SLSC was mentioned as the group to be responsible when I talked to Michael Linden. I'll PM you particulars.”

 

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Orca Flotta:

AFAIK it's not SLSA but the BSG which is considered the authority about all things saling all over the grid. We can all see what kinda mess they made of it.”

 

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Bea:

Quote from: Joy Acker on February 09, 2015, 09:07:24 AM

"There are two things about Blake Id like to see if we can do something about..."

 

@Joy Acker

 

aren't you a member of the BSG?

I thought each club around BS had 2 representatives in that group, and that you were one for FIYC.

 

It was the initial plan for the BSG if I remember (I have been a member in BSG for a couple of months at the very beginning, together with Yuu as representative of "Les Glenans". I left when I felt it din't work the right way. Also I was invited in this group for one week, for the duration of the Fizz Cup Final in 2011, to rezz the setup for the courses).

Things may have changed since that, but it seems that reactivity is not their  first attribute. I believe several members of this forum are member of the BSG.

So, could one of them have the good idea to answer simple questions:

 

- is there a procedure for submitting to the committee (or group) the project(s)? (or to whom?)

- What is the decision making process? Who does decide, who are the members?

- What are the criteria for enhancements?

- How long would it take?”

 

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MTW:

Man, i hate it when that happens. I was composing a long response to the good questions asked on this thread. I accidently hit some key and lost the whole thing.

 

I have to leave for work now but I will post again tonight answers a lot of these questions and making some suggestions for improvements that we can all work together on.

 

In the mean time the short answer to Bea's original questions as well as a few others is to read the Blake Sea links at the end of my signature line.

 

Much more to come tonight.

 

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kimi_o:

@MarkTwain White..

 

If you're out of sailing, then why are you here?

 

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Don:

@marktwain  You don't seem to get the jest or premiss of this we do not any longer recognize you as a responsible representative of SL Sailing .  And this should fit well with your statements of leaving SL sailing alone . 

 

There is no way you or any officers of SLSA or its clubs can be partisan with independent sailing  as long as you have Land interest first and Sailors last . This has been the course for far to long . And you latest self distinctive actions against SL Sailing ViA SYC , NYBR, MATI, and the MESH shop have proven this time and time again .

 

To many people have beeb the brunt of yours and the USS sailing sims greed . Mis use of Blake sea Assets like its yours to rule with no public comment nor effort to listen . The sheer removal of sims that where given to the public to protect your land interests as well goes to show its the Buck first ,

 

Anytime you have been involved with this process you have always made sure to load the pork fat on bills lets say . making it USS Sailing sims gets something in return for us the sailing Public . the real people that use these waters responsible and in the sprit they have been created .

 

The  infrastructure  to updated it needs old lines removed it needs to be properly managed mapped and somethings removed .

The BSC is not only bias its ruled by fear of people not towing the line your visions protection of your assets nothing more nothing less .

 

The time has come for you and its officers to step down to let this group be reorganized to reflect what it was intended for the maintenance  of the Blake sea . A real committee with real voting and real public sharing of it health and well being . And until then . I repeat anyone on it RD to club member to landowner can not be involved with Mainland Water Maintenance. with out any dought of coversions with USS Sailing sim goals ,

 

Thats not what it was created for even thu you have rewritten many things to reflect a false authorities. The attacks on this media outlets and its umbrella of knowledge and it ideas of keeping commercialization out of it .  Further show your intents to Protect only USS Sailing sims assets ..

 

Your profuse denials of interrupting growth away from the Blake or even inside it for none USS Sailing sim owners is historic .

The time is well over due to update the ways SL Sailing is managed in between LL and the common Man or Sailor . There are more clubs and more sailors on mainland waters then the small pond of the blake sea and Sailing and its administration deserves better . Its deserves non bias non corporate influences,  A real Bia Partisan group of independent Sailors .. That actually use the waters  

 

This can not be SLSA it can not be BSC or USS Sailing Sim or you . It can only come from a group of dedicated sailors with no financial ties in any way . I would resect your comments only if they do not include the same mumbo jumbo how you saved sailing and you where asked etc by LL personal many moons ago to consulte them . because Mark you and me both know that statement is no longer true  Per Patch Linden own words .

 

The blake sea group was suppost to be a democratic group that protected the Blake sea NOT the USS Sailing Sims interests and its three to four clubs . 

 

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Joy:

@Bea   Im not a member of BSG afik, or if I am they havent told me lol.  I am a Blake RD but thats not quite the same thing.   I'll wait & see what Mark has to say (and catch up with the other posts).

 

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Bea:

Quote from: Joy Acker on February 10, 2015, 10:30:24 AM

"Im not a member of BSG afik, or if I am they havent told me lol.  I am a Blake RD but thats not quite the same thing"

? I thought Blake Sea RD was a role in the Blake Sea Group.

 

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Silber:

I think, You mix the Blake Sea Group with the Blake Sea Steering Committee.

 

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Bea:

Quote from: Silber Sands on February 10, 2015, 11:17:16 AM

"I think, You mix the Blake Sea Group with the Blake Sea Steering Committee."

Oh yes, probably.

I guess MTW will enlighten us about the internal organization.

 

Anyway, the question is on Infrastructure, who decides, who can add objects and rezz (and get rid of autoreturn), who may return objects...

 

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Silber:

I can only tell how it has worked for me: when I wanted to rez a buoy for a special course (f.e. Fizz Cup, Summer Cup, SRYC races), I simply asked other RDs of the BSG if it was okay for them (particularly Gemma/ NYC since their courses went through the area where I hosted/ planned most races).

Communication has always worked pretty well that time, same with LL when I wanted to replace a “broken” buoy of them or asked for special help during Summer Cup and Fizz Cup.

About returning objects from other members/ RDs in the BSG: only LL can do. Alternatively, the owner of the object has to derezz it.

 

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Nomad:

I think some background information on the Blake Sea and the USS might be useful. There has been a lot of opinion expressed that may not be altogether accurate, so I hope the following helps to clarify matters. Most of this is from memory, some from checking relevant docs and old forum posts.

 

 

Blake Sea

Body of water owned by Linden Lab. Created as the first example of what was then called the Community Partnership Program. It was an arrangement between LL and a group of private estate owners (the United Sailing Sims - USS), which entailed linking the group of private estates with the existing mainland using a body of water primarily focussed on sailing. None of the private estates was to be directly connected to the existing mainland - only via the Blake Sea waters.

 

The creation of this topographical arrangement was proposed by Linden Lab to MTW (the de-facto leader and main driving force behind the creation of the original USS), and was a direct result of the price increase of homestead sims. As a large block of interconnected private estates, the USS provided substantial revenue, and estate owners were so concerned about the effects of the price increase, serious consideration was being given to leaving SL and setting up a similar sailing area on another platform. In essence, LL proposed the idea as a way of encouraging the USS estate owners to remain in SL. Initial attention to the issue came about as a result of a large protest held by sailors from around the grid, the protest itself being held in USS waters.

 

 

United Sailing Sims

A collection of private estates that were already physically connected to each other before the creation of the Blake Sea. All estates emphasise sailing. A condition of membership is to design estate topography with a sizable proportion of water suitable for sailing, and acceptance of an application is by vote of the existing estate owners (one vote per owner). Land use is largely residential, some small pockets of commerce, and some community-focussed areas such as music venues and, of course, sailing clubs. When the Blake Sea was created, the USS estates were physically relocated such that they were connected to the Blake waters as well as to each other.

 

 

Blake Sea Group

In-world group created and owned by Linden Lab. Primary purposes are to provide a group tag for rezzed objects in the Blake Sea, and to provide roles used by residents, mainly to allow rez of objects for sailing infrastructure, and return rights to clear occasional lost vehicles. These rights were granted to make the Blake Sea self-managed to a substantial degree by the residents concerned, and there are strict guidelines on how the full set of rights may be used in the Blake Sea Code Of Conduct, published by Linden Lab. The roles for residents (such as Blake RD) can be granted by a small number of non-LL people, at least one of whom is MTW.

 

 

Blake Sea Steering Committee

Formed by MTW when the Blake Sea was created. It consisted of two senior members from each of the yacht clubs then on the Blake Sea. It had no 'teeth' - no authority, and no power to make anything happen. Its role was purely advisory and such advice was to be offered if and when requested by MTW (in his role as liaison with LL). The intention was to use the BSSC as a way of gauging the opinions of sailors such that more informed representations could be made to LL (via MTW) if such representations were sought. When first formed, LL may have expected MTW to act as a representative of sailing grid-wide, but the BSSC was never tasked with this - its remit was limited to the Blake Sea itself.

 

The first thing the BSSC was asked to do (advise on, or offer recommendations regarding) was to draw up a list of RDs who would be added to the Blake Sea Group. This entailed some lengthy correlation of known RDs with known race events in the calendar, along with determining any that were no longer active, as well as any new ones. The second task was to elect a chairperson from amongst the committee members. (Until then, MTW had been the acting chair.) A new chair was duly elected, but the activities of the BSSC were, by then, already in decline.

 

The BSSC was formed in late 2009 and, by August 2010, it was wholly moribund.

 

 

 

Some Background And Commentary With Regard To The Above

I've been a member of the NYC Steering Committee (the club's management team) for several years - since before the move to Blake. When the NYC estate owner, Francois Jacques, passed on in real life, after several months of careful consideration, the Steering Committee voted to make me the new owner of the NYC estate. I see myself as its custodian rather than its owner.

 

NYC has been a USS club since the day it was formed in 2006. It was originally located in SL New England (a USS estate), moved to a temporary location provided by Svar Beckerstead (then a USS estate owner), and finally found its current home when Francois instigated the purchase of a sim to act as the club's home port.

 

This means that I am a "USS owner". As such, I participate in the activities of the USS owners' group (such as discussion of applications for membership, and USS-specific matters like how the constituent estates are arranged to ensure that all have good access to the Blake waters). I was also one of the original members of the BSSC. I was privy to all discussions held by the committee in its reserved area on the .org forum (now archived). Technically, I still am a member since the BSSC was never formally closed and I have never rescinded my membership. I am also a member of the Blake Sea group, although I am not an RD - I mainly use the rights this affords me to return the occasional lost vehicle (part of the self-managed thing), and it helps with development of some infrastructure items, such as the experimental buoys I was working on last year. Once or twice, I've also helped to clear out Blake sims after griefing attacks.

 

The characterisation by some individuals that the "USS owners" are evil plotters out to control all of sailing across the grid is quite simply false. I have never seen any discussion in the USS owners discussion group that is not about the USS and its own concerns (stuff that is frankly mundane, like those mentioned above).

 

Same for the BSSC. It's remit was to advise and recommend only on Blake Sea matters. Its role was conflated with some sort of grid-wide advisory role because of two things...

LL expected MTW to act as the single point of liaison on sailing.

Jane Fossett once left a notecard in a mainland buoy or windsetter, signed "for and on behalf of the BSSC".

The latter was done without any authority or approval whatsoever from either the BSSC itself or MTW (as its acting chair). She removed it soon after, but not before someone read it and the rumour mill got into full swing. In truth, the BSSC did virtually nothing other than come up with an initial list of Blake RDs and elect its first chairperson from amongst its members. We were never asked to advise or make recommendations on sailing in general (whether in the Blake Sea or elsewhere). For the time it operated, it was little more than boring admin and committee work that concentrated on getting the initial structures set up as a precursor to fulfilling our putative advisory role.

 

The "evil" Blake Sea group is another false characterisation. It basically consists of LL, who do nothing, MTW and one or two others who assign the RD role when requested, and a bunch of local RDs who get on with the business of running races (a small number of whom manage the local sailing infrastructure).

 

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Caf:

Good post, Nomad!

 

Maybe it can start opening the Dead, oops, Blake, Sea, so people can cross it and meet once again?

 

Many many things could be better if in a SECOND moment, EVERY people could go back to better understanding and toleration.

 

Very difficult. But not impossible. This is SL, folks. Not RL. Let s try to keep RL sh*t outta here.

 

I know storm will come over this. But do think about, fellows.

 

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MTW:

My most sincere thanks go to Nomad for starting this topic. So much falsehood has spread in the last year or two about my personal role as liaison with LL regarding the Blake Sea (as well as Nber’s role) that I excites me to have one of the leaders of SL sailing that has been an integral part of the events write on the topic and try to help correct some of the errors that have been spread.  Thank you again Nomad for those clarifications and thank you Caf for that word of support towards a possible solution to some festering issues.  :D

 

 

In a private area of this forum there was a topic started this morning by Bea and contributed to by others that sought some answers to the structures and functionality of the Blake Sea and the Blake Sea covenant between the USS and LL. Nomad has explained it much better than I could have.

 

 

If Bea and others can adjust to the fact that the current leadership arrangement is the one LL wanted from the beginning and still apparently wants (i.e. a single interface on behalf of the SL sailing community) then i think the groundwork exists for some calming of the waters and cooperative behavior among us all to get the things done we all agree need to be done to improve the SL sailing situation.

 

 

In the Long Ago when the agreement was made between the then owners of the USS sims Jack was very clear that he was not interested in dealing with a committee regarding the SL Sailing needs. He wanted, as much as possible,  a single point of contact to work with so the USS owners met and appointed myself, Nber, and Sudane as the principal figures to work with all USS owners to convey our plans and wishes to LL. Part of those early days also included Jack and Lindens expectation that beyond our direct concerns with the Blake Sea area we would fulfill an advisor role on changes made grid wise issues related to sailing. It is for that reason that you will find start lines and buoys in the name of several USS functionaries in various places around the grid. Back in those days LL had an open door policy for its employees and many of the great Lindens of the past used ot have office hours and the means of decision making on topics under their control.. In those days many great suggestions flowed from SL sailors to LL about needed changes in the mainland and the Blake Sea. Unfortunately, over time LL has seriously slowed down such  casual communications style  and now wants people, even community leaders (like Nber and I representing the Blake Sea Covenant) to communicate by means of tickets. So when you talk about Michael seeming to be evasive or slow to respond to suggestions its because he is between a rock and a hard place. He WANTS to help in the old way, but his bosses put the kabosh on that.  BTW, if Michael has told someone that the contact for change is the SLSA he is, of course, mistaken, or the person that he was talking to misunderstood.  The official line of communication is resident, to USS, to Linden Lab. Because of the structure we maintain in the USS owners group that means that Nber, Sudane Erato, and myself are where the rubber meets the road in the process. Sundane deals more with the USS members interaction and land issues, Nber and I deal mostly with Blake Sea administrative issues.

 

As Bea has been talking about there is a need to look at the existing inventory of what nautical objects exist grid wide and suggest to LL what needs to be changed. Clearing the best way to accomplish that is to work through the system that LL has established. In the past when it was much easier to get face time with Jack Linden or other Lindens such as Michael, or Keira, or Dee things could get done more speedily, but, if you read the history of the Blake Sea in my signature line, you will see that working with LL can be more like wading thru molassaes.

 

So here is my proposal. I have a Blog called The Blake Sea Journal ( http://blakesea.blogspot.com/ ).

 

In the blog I will create a prominent topic called "Q & A" or "Proposals" something to that effect. It will be a place where people can post ideas  and constructive comments that can lead to communications to the Lindens about the important stuff  to help us grow. It will not be a forum where anything can be said about anything. for it to work ideally sailors can meet in any manner they wish, discuss proposals the when a consensus is reached it can be forwarded to me. I would pass it along as long as there is a documented discussion to back the proposal up. It will be  a business kiosk to share needs and arrange for contact with the Lindens for positive changes.

 

It is a place to work together, to compromise for the better good of all.

 

My suggestion that the first test of this communications effort is to prioritize a small number of the changes to be made and see if we can walk those changes through. And I suggest we all keep to non-controversial changes for the time being so that this methodology can get established as the modus operandi between SL sailors and Linden Lab.

 

Comments?

 

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MTW:

Ok. home from work and able to comment on some issues ask earlier in this topic. However during the day two fantastic posts were made on this forum under the a topic listed below (Blake Sea/USS Background).It is in the context of that topic (with posts from Nomad and Caf) I want to combine my responses to this topic with Nomad’s topic which will put the whole discussion in an historical context while at the same time providing a way forward to accomplish some of the goals that Bea and Don are talking about in the topic entitled “Inventory of Sailing Infrastructure in Mainline Waters topic.

 

 So let’s hop over there and read Blake Sea, USS, etc - Some Background Info  My comments to both topics will be condensed there.

 

http://forum.slsaili...pic,3917.0.html

 

MTW

 

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kimi_o:

I deleted this post.

« Last Edit: Today at 12:44:23 AM by kimi_o »

 

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kimi_o:

I'm going to speak for myself here, MarkTwain White, although I'm thinking my sentiments are shared by more than a few that frequent this forum.

 

The "current leadership arrangement" is not one that a large percentage of users of SL sailing areas agrees with. We do not have to adjust to you or your thoughts on the subject. You do not speak for us, advocate for us, or in any way represent us.

 

As long as you meddle in things, you are the one disturbing the waters. All here have clearly seen the results of your so called "leadership".

 

You are not privy to conversations I have had with Michael Linden, and therefore have no authority to say that he is incorrect or that I am mistaken. I have those messages in black and white, as they were addressed to me, and not to you. Do not attempt to correct my interpretation of things that you know absolutely nothing about.

 

Your blog is not relevant to any discussion here. Neither is your one sided forum. In fact, to my way of thinking, you personally are no longer relevant. We neither seek, nor require, your approval on any matter. Many of us do not even bother to go to your Black Sea anymore.

 

You have stated to your agents that you have left SL sailing and are no longer interested in it. As such, either your agents or yourself are not telling the truth. Yet you wish to come here and act as some benevolent father figure looking to make some compromise that we can assume will be a compromise only for us, and a benefit to you.

 

I can say openly that the only change that I myself, and I'm certain many others wish for, is for you and your agents to be gone from SL sailing. Too many of us will not deal with you.

 

You are no friend to us. Understand that that is how you are recognized by many.

 

But you will not be recognized as any sort of spokesperson.

 

Cheers.

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Orca Flotta:

Quote from: MarkTwain White on February 10, 2015, 08:57:03 PM

So let’s hop over there and read Blake Sea, USS, etc

"* Orca Flotta won't do nothing of that sort, is not interested in the bad history but only in clearing up how stuff's gonna be handled in a hopefully better future."

 

Let's leave the archives, tear all the old shit down (coz it smells of mothballs) and start building a new sailing infrastructure from scratch. Let's work with LDPW - and only LDPW - no middle men, no commercial interests. And OMG, no special treats for the fukn Blake! It's an ocean like we have so many off on the grid, no more no less. It just comes with the caveat that it's impossible to buy a piece of land at its shores.  :(

 

If Michael asks for a responsible spokesperson from the sailing community - as I know he will - then ok, let's vote for one. We need a person with no vested interest in any special part of the grid, with no commercial interest but with a good knowledge of all the sailing areas on the grid. Also with a profound knowledge of the latest developments in sailing technology (buoys, racelines etc) so that person can advice the lab on stuff we need and stuff we don't need. The goal would be a uniform sailing system all over the grid. So RDs can operate all lines, can rez and derez buoys with a click of a button (like in North Sea), and have certain powers to kick griefers. I'm talkin' 'bout a  system that rezzes startlines and markers for the duration of a certain race and deletes them afterwards. Come on guys, it's 2015, why is this still a single girl's dream???

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Orca Flotta:

What happened to the other Infrastructure thread? The one opened by Nomad. Kimi just posted there today as the last participant and I wanted to add my 2 cents but got a message that thread does not exist. WOT??? Some admin tooling around with shit here? Now every time I click that thread I get redirected to this one. Can't even open and read it anymore.

 

Kinda similar the classic boats thread that suddenly won't allow me to respond. KIdz, forumizing llike this ain't no fun. I'm a really patient person but I won't waste my time with badly managed or written forum software. Do I need to copypaste all my forum posts in order to try and resend them a couple days later?

 

Do I smell bullshit here?

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Nomad:

Admin: Why has my post been merged into this thread? I deliberately posted it separately because I wanted it to stand on its own.

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Admin:

Quote from: Orca Flotta on Today at 01:11:56 AM

"What happened to the other Infrastructure thread? The one opened by Nomad. Kimi just posted there today as the last participant and I wanted to add my 2 cents but got a message that thread does not exist. WOT??? Some admin tooling around with shit here? Now every time I click that thread I get redirected to this one. Can't even open and read it anymore."

 

Nah, calm down: the two topics simply have been merged. All posts from both topics are available above. Kimi deleted herself her comment.

 

Quote from: Orca Flotta on Today at 01:11:56 AM

"Kinda similar the classic boats thread that suddenly won't allow me to respond."

 

I don't see any trouble with this topic, find it here: http://forum.slsaili...pic,3900.0.html

 

Quote from: Orca Flotta on Today at 01:11:56 AM

"KIdz, forumizing llike this ain't no fun. I'm a really patient person but I won't waste my time with badly managed or written forum software. Do I need to copypaste all my forum posts in order to try and resend them a couple days later?"

 

Thank you  :-\\

 

Quote from: Nomad on Today at 01:21:49 AM

"Admin: Why has my post been merged into this thread? I deliberately posted it separately because I wanted it to stand on its own. "

 

Because all subsequent comments to your post were related to THIS topic, and as the further comments were related to your post, it was not possible to split your topic after your post and to merge the comment in this topic.

Thus merging both topics made sense.

I understand you want it to stand on its own, for that consider copy/paste it in another post and lock it.

An easy fix.

No need to write in bold with big font size to stir up scandal.   :-\\

 

 

You all are a bit nervous guys...

 

Bea Woodget

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Bea:

I also consider Nomad's post on "Blake Sea, USS, etc - Some Background Info" as a good one, clear and accurate.

 

While his post exonerates USS/BSG/BSSC group members from the suspicion of being involved in sl sailing stuff elsewhere than in Blake Sea,

Quote from: Nomad

"...BSSC... - its remit was limited to the Blake Sea itself. ... I have never seen any discussion in the USS owners discussion group that is not about the USS and its own concerns ... Same for the BSSC. It's remit was to advise and recommend only on Blake Sea matters."

 

it also highlights some reasons for confusions and amalgams:

Quote from: Nomad

"...When (BSSC) first formed, LL may have expected MTW to act as a representative of sailing grid-wide...BSSC...Its role was conflated with some sort of grid-wide advisory role because of two things..."

LL expected MTW to act as the single point of liaison on sailing.

Jane Fossett once left a notecard in a mainland buoy or windsetter, signed "for and on behalf of the BSSC".

 

This is enforced by MTW comment, who puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of Lindens :

Quote from: MarkTwain

"...the current leadership arrangement is the one LL wanted from the beginning and still apparently wants (i.e. a single interface on behalf of the SL sailing community. ... Jack and Lindens expectation that ... we would fulfill an advisor role on changes made grid wise issues related to sailing.... The official line of communication is resident, to USS, to Linden Lab...Michael has told someone that the contact for change is the SLSA he is, of course, mistaken..."

 

So my understanding is that the true question is about that "single interface on behalf of the SL sailing community".

 

Considering the SL sailing community is not unified (the least one can say),

that there are a lot of criticisms and complains directed at MTW/Nber,

that their own club SYC had no sailing activity at all for years but dividing the community with the behavior of their commodore in 2014,

considering that MTW was in that advisor role for LL for grid wide issues related to sailing but that he never did anything related to that role,

considering MTW/Nber recent actions in SLSA,

considering that USS/BS represents or hosts less than 5-10% of established Yacht Clubs,

considering that a large majority of active sailors and "event makers" have now joined the SLSC,

 

One may wonder to what extent MTW/Nber are the best spokespersons for the SL Sailing Community.

 

I think we are facing here a blatant breech of conflict of interest, with evident abuses of power, abuses of a dominant position (historical, but now over). 

 

So I concur with Kimi and Orca's posts above, calling for representatives of sl sailing being selected by sailors from among the sailors (the same way I called for democracy in SLSA ownership btw).

 

 

Regarding the initial post of this thread and the questions related to "how to...procedure...", and MTW's proposal for a future topic called "Q & A" or "Proposals" on his own private blog for him to reinforce his exclusive leadership,

first it comes far too late (why didn't you do that 5 years ago Mark?),

and second it can't be accepted until the previous point on elected representatives for sl sailing community is addressed.

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

ZZ Bottom:

Linden Lab will only address to those they are used to speak with.

 They don't give a damn about the sailing community, its dreams and so on a s along as there is no violation of the Tos and even that, if you have the power = land, you have all.

 So all the big dreams of some, many?!  about a change in the way the community deals with LL and to put those some, many?! in replacement of the known channels they are used to deal with are doomed to be just a endless flood of posts on this forum.

 Mark purposed a way, to post on his blog, some claim Mark is no longer of any relevance for the Sl sailing community but i dare to say that for LL he is the only one.

 Deal with it or keep making all the drama, it will never reach LL, unless someone, manage to buy 100 sims, then LL will be all ears!

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Bea:

Quote from: foneco zuzu on Today at 03:44:14 AM

"... keep making all the drama..."

 

Why do you assimilate simple polite questions and community good sense with drama?

I think your way of thinking is part of the problem.

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Caf:

Quote from: Nomad on Today at 01:21:49 AM

"Admin: Why has my post been merged into this thread? I deliberately posted it separately because I wanted it to stand on its own. "

 

Sorry Admin, but I must and do agree with Nomad! That post, my answer as well, is well beyond "Questions on SL Sailing infrastructure". He was not, me neither, commenting on this.

 

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Bea:

Quote from: Caf Binder on Today at 04:24:21 AM

"Quote from: Nomad on Today at 01:21:49 AM

"Admin: Why has my post been merged into this thread? I deliberately posted it separately because I wanted it to stand on its own. ""

 

Sorry Admin, but I must and do agree with Nomad! That post, my answer as well, is well beyond "Questions on SL Sailing infrastructure". He was not, me neither, commenting on this.

 

Again:

 

Quote from: Administrator on Today at 01:33:46 AM

"Because all subsequent comments to your post were related to THIS topic, and as the further comments were related to your post, it was not possible to split your topic after your post and to merge the comment in this topic.

Thus merging both topics made sense.

I understand you want it to stand on its own, for that consider copy/paste it in another post and lock it.

An easy fix.

No need to write in bold with big font size to stir up scandal.   :-\\

 

 

You all are a bit nervous guys...

 

Bea Woodget"

 

In other words:

 

 

2 Clicks for you to fix that, or go on shouting as long as you want guys...

 

 

********************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

 

I am sure there will be more to come, including more posts as they come.



#2 Analyse

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 02:56 AM

Ok, so if read this correctly some people are staging a "coup" in the Blake Sea?

 

None of them represent the thousands of people who actually use it or rent property directly surrounding it, none of them have a yacht club or an estate or other interest there, and yet they feel its up to them to decide whats best for the Blake Sea? After years of trashing the place they suddenly made a 180 and we are now led to belief they have its best interest at heart?
 

 

As far as i can see the self proposed candidates here are (in random order),

don Berithos, the guy who subsequently got booted out the Blake and the Seychelles for misbehavior, got booted of the slsailing.net forum for nazism, and booted from the slsailing.co forum not once but twice before he literally bought his way back in.
 
We have Kimi-O "Chemotherapy", by her own admission an "aggressive bitch" that doesn't care much for sailing but is in it purely for the drama,

And Bea Woodget, who made numerous power plays in the past for personal gain and among many other things got booted from the SLSA comms role for abusing that for her own political agenda and also got booted out of the Blake Sea RD role for rezzing spy drones all over the place, an offense that LL deemed so serious she got booted from SL for a while.

 

:mellow:

 

 

Kuddo's for Nomad btw, thanks for a levelheaded and informative approach.


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#3 Raven Luna

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 05:46 AM

Okay - first off.... *raises hand*  Hi, I'm Raven and even though I've been in SL for 8.5 years, I am a total noob in regards to SL sailing and its factions. I love to sail and wave at other sailors. Period.

 

Second - wow.  I read this entire post and I am VERY glad I am not a member of that other forum. Who ARE these people?? Way too much uneccessary drama from toxic people I've never heard of.

 

And yes - Nomad's post was perfect and informative - even though, in that environment, it almost seems as futile as spitting into the wind. Great effort though.

 

I also read Analyse's comment and that spurred me to comment. I am one of thousands of people who sail the Blake Sea - often completely unaware of who owns what or what any race line or buoy represents (seriously). I love playing and renting in the USS because it is themed, has rules, and I know what to expect. I know I have support if I am harassed and I enjoy being a part of a very friendly and helpful community.  I love playing in the Blake Sea for the exact same reason. So if those toxic people (who do NOT in any way represent me or thousands of other casual sailors) choose to "boycott" the Blake.... well good - more space for us non-hateful types.  :-)  I sincerely hope they stay on their private regions, do all of their "fun" stuff there,  and leave the rest of us alone.

 

My $0.02 from the noob colony.


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