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Blake Sea Bad Performance Cause by LL Change?


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#21 Analyse

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 12:19 AM

Since the Blake Sea is Linden owned, I suppose it is a waste of time griping about something they own and you do not. After all they can take back their sims anytime they want without any discussion or explanation to any one. 

 

 

well, yes and no, while you are technically correct that the Blake is LL owned, it came into existence for a reason (if you are interested you can read all about it by following the links in Marks signature), and is actually mainly the responsibility of the people who negotiated that deal. Also, where it sometimes may look like the opposite, LL is trying to improve things, not intentionally make them worse, and assuming that they "can take it back at any time" is pretty far fetched, since hey, in the end they run SL to make money, so deliberately destroying one the most popular places in their virtual world is most likely not on the agenda. ;)


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#22 ZZBottom

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 08:28 AM

To better understand any should read the history of the Blake Sea, under Mark signature:

http://blakesea.blog...-blake-sea.html


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#23 Laycee Deed

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 03:55 PM

I know about as much about how our simulators work as I do about what makes my vibrator change gears and "pulse" :rolleyes: , but I can't help but wonder if the recent arrival of giant sailboats with hundreds of prims, dozens of animations and oh-so-many scripts to support them might not be the source of some of the observed simulator performance problems? Do those new boats use/require more simulator resources than my little 32-prim, two-seat sloops? If so, would a bunch of them sailing together in a regatta degrade the sims' performance to the detriment of not only themselves, but everybody else trying to share the sims with them? Also, what effect would the boats speed have on sim performance? Would say, 5 maxi-yachts skittering all their prims and scripts across a sim at 20+ knots have a different effect on sim performance than say, 5 Nemo's sailing along at a reasonable and realistic 5 or 6 knots?



#24 Analyse

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 04:17 PM

I know about as much about how our simulators work as I do about what makes my vibrator change gears and "pulse" :rolleyes: , but I can't help but wonder if the recent arrival of giant sailboats with hundreds of prims, dozens of animations and oh-so-many scripts to support them might not be the source of some of the observed simulator performance problems? Do those new boats use/require more simulator resources than my little 32-prim, two-seat sloops? If so, would a bunch of them sailing together in a regatta degrade the sims' performance to the detriment of not only themselves, but everybody else trying to share the sims with them? Also, what effect would the boats speed have on sim performance? Would say, 5 maxi-yachts skittering all their prims and scripts across a sim at 20+ knots have a different effect on sim performance than say, 5 Nemo's sailing along at a reasonable and realistic 5 or 6 knots?

 

 

I may have missed these giant sailboats, but rest assured, where rendering a lot on your screen at the same time, and specially executing a lot of script code may have influence on your framerates locally in your viewer, it does not impact sim performance (Also, its not relevant to the size of the boat, a freebie two seater dinghy can still contain like 30 communications heavy scripts). Every simulator allows for a certain "primitive" usage, so where a boat thats 96 prims (or better, "prim equivalent" since prims as such aren't used much anymore) uses three times the "resources" a 32PE boat does, a full sim has the capacity to support 15.000 prims, and a homestead, like most water sims, still supports 3750,

 

Keep in mind that an average avatar has a higher render cost, and on average 10x as much scripts and animations as the average boat, so unless you leave your flexi hair, 50k poly boots and you AO at home, your viewer has to work a lot harder for you then for the boat ;)


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#25 Laycee Deed

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

... so unless you leave your flexi hair, 50k poly boots and you AO at home ...

Ana, that's why I sail barefoot and nakie :P



#26 MarkTwainWhite

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 05:48 PM

From Analyse: Keep in mind that an average avatar has a higher render cost, and on average 10x as much scripts and animations as the average boat, so unless you leave your flexi hair, 50k poly boots and you AO at home, your viewer has to work a lot harder for you then for the boat 

 
 

Ana, that's why I sail barefoot and nakie :P

 
I think that the more important items here are flexy hair and AO.  Those two items alone when robust enough can put an aircraft carrier to shame.  Back years ago when we had parts of six sims dedicated to Kanker FLog golf game it nearly a prerequiste for all players to take off flexy and torus tortured hair, not to mention AO. If you wore those they you could never be much of a competitor in Flog.  Showing up on a tee with flexi tortured hair was a sure sign that you were not an experienced golfer
 
I know a lot of aviators are aware of this as well. That is one of the reasons we have a personal lag meter reader in the southwest corner of Hollywood Airport so that aviators and ppassengerscan quickly check their personal lagginess before getting on an airplane.
 
I think every yacht club out there should have one of these lag meter readers such as at the SW corner of SLHA. That way every skipper can tell in advance what is the likelihood of rough seas. Neptune knows and and sees all and if you venture off shore with  serious flexi-hair and AO, and MistyTools, and all kinds of radars to tell about the sims ahead it will be those TOOLS that sink you more that the CPU in a machine somehere far from hair and AO and pingers/pongers/and x-ray glasses.  Let's not be be our worst enemies on the high seas.
 
Perhaps the last three post here could be split off into a new topic? How About "How to Reduce Lag Out on the Water"


Edited by MarkTwainWhite, 09 October 2014 - 06:09 PM.

grin.gif Success comes with hard work and dedication.
Not by trying to bring others down.
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By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? - Matthew 7:16

 

----------------------------------
The History of the Blake Sea: http://bit.ly/HnZCG7
How is the Blake Sea Administrated?: http://bit.ly/1bYEHmm


#27 Laycee Deed

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

Now you listen to me MTW, don't you go messing with a girls hairdo!!!!  You're asking for BIG trouble :)

 

Previous points well taken and this thread is already a learning experience for me :-)  Good idea splitting this part off too (got your ears on admin?)

 

I've been using the native Firestorm AO for about 6 months now and I love it.  It doesn't require yet another HUD cluttering your viewer and, as I understand it, it's script impact is nil (someone please correct me if that's not right). It's fairly easy to set-up and there are good instructions available by clicking the help "?" in the upper right corner of the AO window. I just ripped my anims from the various VISTA AOs that I own and manually stuffed them into the FS AO.  I also jammed some singles dances in for good measure ;)

 

Your warning about flexi-hair makes me wonder if these periodic spats of bad sailing weather that we experience are more related to a popular new release by one of the premium ladies hair venders than it is to a new server candidate or  luxury yacht release :huh:   I wonder, if we, get your suggested "How to Reduce Lag Out on the Water" thread started, maybe it could include some suggestions from the gals for where to find attractive, low-script hair styles (I'm praying that there is such a thing, especially since none of us can escape ZZ's fabulous and prolific camera lens)?



#28 Analyse

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 08:38 PM

I think it was a valid question regarding server performance, and i hope it was adequately answered, so we are still on topic,

 

as for the place where we collect all tips and tricks to make our sailing experience the best it can be: http://www.virtualwo...-my-first-boat/

 

i think preparing the avatar and taking care in render cost and scriptload hasn't been addressed yet, so it will make a nice addition.


 If at first you don't succeed, single-handed ‘round the world ocean racing is not for you.

#29 Lehna

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 10:47 PM

Just to give you an idea of the problems in Blake, I was RD over 2 sets of races today one for Nacra and one for Tako, The nacra races only half the racers finished 2 races and NONE the third, In the Tako races not a single person finished any race all 8 crashed every time, people were crashing before the race it was nothing short of a disgrace, my personal opinion on this matter is simple, LL has lost interest in SL despite its loyal and caring CUSTOMERS. They have switched their focus on their new game, moved resources and personel to that platform and SL can go hang. This is one person that will not be switching, I will however continue to support my friends and colleagues on SL until the lights go out, 


I haven't been everywhere, But its on my list - Susan Sontag


#30 Analyse

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:24 PM

Well, i was thinking there is maybe a way of attacking this problem the other way around, the Blake now runs on SNACK, a different server version then the surrounding sims, and the problems we see come from crossing into or out of the area, while from SNACK to SNACK crossings seem to go well, and there even might be a slight improvement in performance.

 

Since asking LL to roll back the Blake would prolly be to much to ask, we could opt for asking them to "upgrade" the surrounding estates to snack as well, that way at least it would make for a bigger consistent area,

 

or would that be stupid?


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#31 MarkTwainWhite

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:23 AM

Since asking LL to roll back the Blake would prolly be to much to ask, we could opt for asking them to "upgrade" the surrounding estates to snack as well, that way at least it would make for a bigger consistent area,

 

or would that be stupid?

Because of some good things we have heard in the last day or two about SNACK, I was definitely going to put that question to them once we get a response. A communication that includes a number of USS owners and a few others has been sent to LL.


grin.gif Success comes with hard work and dedication.
Not by trying to bring others down.
 grin.gif

 

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? - Matthew 7:16

 

----------------------------------
The History of the Blake Sea: http://bit.ly/HnZCG7
How is the Blake Sea Administrated?: http://bit.ly/1bYEHmm


#32 Guest_Orca Flotta_*

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:22 AM

for example at Spyglass just very few seconds less than 10 seconds compare to 2 or 4 minutes in standard release sims to do the same.

Huh? Better check your computer/connection, hun. 10 secs is awful! Terrible! Beyond disgusting! Who has the friggin time to wait that long for a simple render???



#33 ZZBottom

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 10:03 AM

Being a former Sl nascar racer i can tell what causes lag in a sim.

Scripts (much less noways but still)

Avatar draw height.

Mesh allowed to reduce the avatar draw height, and any can check their own by going to advanced menu and chose performance tools.

up to 60.000 is acceptable, my draw heigth when sailing, despite my boobs is always less then 30.000.

 But the biggest cause of lag is some we cant avoid.

 Teleport.

 Unless we close a region before a race, those cant be avoided and when we come to sailing on second life that does not have var regions as open sim, them it is impossible.

 Now about the boats causing lag, for sure a fizz, build on old sculpteds, with a lot of scripts, no matter their size, is and will always be much more laggy, no matter what one could think, then a recent 300 land impact mesh boat.

 So if one wishes to ban some types of boats, start by banning those that use sculpted instead of mesh, now that cdn is a reality!



#34 Gemma

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:23 PM

I have sent in a few Tickets to support, and this is the reply I got yesterday :-

 

Hi, Gemma!

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have been reviewing the performance here on the region this evening to help diagnose your performance concerns. The first thing that I checked is the host for the region and am happy to report that everything on the host end is healthy. Let me start by including two links to tools which I use when reviewing a regions performance.

http://wiki.secondli.../Statistics_Bar
http://wiki.secondli...ion_Performance

While in your region this evening I found the performance to be doing very well. The time dilation and sim fps were consistent while I made requests such as teleports, IMs, editing appearance and rezzing objects then retrieving them into inventory. From what I am seeing tonight everything here is looking very good.

As far as regular restarts, I am afraid that we cannot make any promises there. In general, your region should be restarted on Wednesday mornings as part of our regular Rolling Maintenance to the RC channel servers. However, this maintenance is only performed if there is new code that needs to be deployed to those channels. If no new code is available/required, the rolling maintenance will not be performed. We are unable to make any promises of any regular restarts for specific regions. If you do encounter problems with the region, I encourage you to make use of the support options available to you at the time of occurrence to alert us so that we can assist you directly and hopefully identify and correct the issue. If you have any questions, please let me know!

Warm wishes,
Reed Linden



#35 Gemma

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:34 PM

I totally believe that this was your observations, and I am sure you believe me in my observations as well: not only are these my finding, it is those of the whole sailing community that use the Blake Sea.

I am sure you are too busy to be reading Forum race results but please read this link http://forum.slsaili...pic,3331.0.html , all those sailors that posted a "not finished" actually crashed in the terrible conditions. Some days its ok, too many days are poor.

I will personally monitor things and advise you further; one thing I do plan to do is to take videos and post them on YouTube - I will provide you with the links, lets hope all is now well.

I am therefore re opening this case so I can keep you advised further.



#36 Justin Blade

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 07:30 PM

Well, i was thinking there is maybe a way of attacking this problem the other way around, the Blake now runs on SNACK, a different server version then the surrounding sims, and the problems we see come from crossing into or out of the area, while from SNACK to SNACK crossings seem to go well, and there even might be a slight improvement in performance.

 

 

First let me thank Gemma for the work she's been putting into this issue.

 

Ana, as Lehna mentioned in her post and repeated by Gemma, the problem is in the Blake Sea, not crossing into or leaving it.  We are having whole fleets of racers crashing, sometimes when doing nothing more then hoisting sails to start.  Individual boats sailing around seem to generally do fine but as soon as there are four to eight or nine heading in the same general direction or entering the same sim at close to the same time the problem raises its ugly head.  It's getting very frustrating, and the issue is not being repeated in other areas of the grid.  Most of us who race there are pretty savvy on script and rendering costs too.  Even stranger in my opinion is that it can be horrible for one or two days, then fine, then back to horrible.  Almost at random it seems.

 

I have no idea what is going on here but if the only change has been the switch to SNACK obviously SNACK is part of the problem, not the cure.


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#37 Analyse

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 08:52 PM


I have no idea what is going on here but if the only change has been the switch to SNACK obviously SNACK is part of the problem, not the cure.

 

 

thanks for sharing, then further migration to an obviously faulty server version is for sure not the solution.


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#38 MarkTwainWhite

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:15 PM

Because of some good things we have heard in the last day or two about SNACK, I was definitely going to put that question to them once we get a response. A communication that includes a number of USS owners and a few others has been sent to LL.

 

Good News! We have heard back from Patch and Dee Linden (who head up the land team for LL).

 

===============================

 

Here is the body of a ticket filed October 9 refering to an original ticket filed on October 5:

 

From MTW to Patch/Dee:

 

Hi the following inquiry was appended to a thank you

response from me (October 5) in regards to the adding of BS Crow's Nest to the

additional Friday reboot schedule. Perhaps I should not have mixed to issues

under one ticket number. I now supmit the inquiry as a new ticket.

 

New Ticket contents:

Perhaps you can help clarify something
else about the Blake Sea regions. The plan always has been to try to keep
them and the surrounging sims of the USS touching the Blake Sea on the same
server type (SL Server). We have been getting so many complains about the
Blake Sea in the past week or so that we started looking around and see
that nearly all of the Blake Sea regions are on a new Beta server type,
Snack. I feel pretty confident that this might be related to the many
complaints we have been receiving. Can you help us understand what is going
on and why? Is there any chance we could get the Blake Sea on the SL
Server? Lots of folks are curious and concerned.

There has been some useful discussions on the Virtual World Sailing Forum that was recently started.

However here is a typical complaint we are hearing these

days about the Blake Sea. I do not believe the following [thoughts about LL intent] is true but it

would be very helpful if you could provide us with some input to share with

the sailors.
"Just to give you an idea of the problems in Blake, I was RD over 2 sets of

races today one for Nacra and one for Tako, The nacra races only half the

racers finished 2 races and NONE the third, In the Tako races not a single

person finished any race all 8 crashed every time, people were crashing

before the race it was nothing short of a disgrace, my personal opinion on

this matter is simple, LL has lost interest in SL despite its loyal and

caring CUSTOMERS. They have switched their focus on their new game, moved

resources and personel to that platform and SL can go hang...
[remainer of message truncated by the buffer limit of ticket filing system]

 

=======================

 

We received the following two responses this AM while I was at work and am

only now getting to post here on VWS

 

=====================

Oct. 10, 2014, 5:17 a.m.
Dee Linden

Hello MarkTwain,

I am so sorry I have not been able to respond before today -- Patch and I

are on this!

Dee
=======================

Oct. 10, 2014, 7:39 a.m.
Dee Linden

Hello MarkTwain,

All Blake Sea regions have been moved back to main Second Life Server (SLS)

code.

Patch and I want to extend our apologies for any performance issues suffered

due to border crossing into non-SLS code regions.

We have alerted our Operations team that these regions need to remain on

SLS, and additionally I have added a recurring event to my personal calendar

to check to ensure that should one slip through the cracks and land on an RC

again, that it will be caught quickly.

Best wishes,
Dee

========================

 

So it appears that the problem should be solved. Please post your Blake Sea sailing experiences here of the next few days and see if the issue has been solved.

 

Gemma has shared what was certainly a frustrating experience she had with Reed Linden that occured in a close time frame to Patch/Dee's responses above. About the only thing i can figure out from the exchange with Reed is that "the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing" in some fashion.

 

Bottom line is what I said a couple days ago... "the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Thank Patch and Dee for your responses and thank you Gemma for your involvement is helping to get the issues resolved.

 

On top of the fact that the Blake Sea is back on the main servers where appaently they should have been all the time, we also have a commitment that Crow's  Nest will get two reboots a week just as Blake Sea - China does (China's strategic position makes it arguably the most heavily traffic region in SL).


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grin.gif Success comes with hard work and dedication.
Not by trying to bring others down.
 grin.gif

 

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? - Matthew 7:16

 

----------------------------------
The History of the Blake Sea: http://bit.ly/HnZCG7
How is the Blake Sea Administrated?: http://bit.ly/1bYEHmm


#39 Gemma

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:53 PM

Thank you Mark,

 

I am sure we will all be holding our breath for a while and I will still be planning to Video those races I compete in; one hand on the tiller & one one the camera, hmmm someone will have to feed me red wine ! , lol



#40 MarkTwainWhite

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 10:10 PM

Thank you Mark,

 

I am sure we will all be holding our breath for a while and I will still be planning to Video those races I compete in; one hand on the tiller & one one the camera, hmmm someone will have to feed me red wine ! , lol

Can't you just wear one of those water dispensers cyclists wear so they get hand free sips at will?  "Let's see, give me one XD-30 inner tube, two pairs of green riding socks and, oh yes, one hands free pouch of Chardonnay."


Edited by MarkTwainWhite, 10 October 2014 - 10:11 PM.

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grin.gif Success comes with hard work and dedication.
Not by trying to bring others down.
 grin.gif

 

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? - Matthew 7:16

 

----------------------------------
The History of the Blake Sea: http://bit.ly/HnZCG7
How is the Blake Sea Administrated?: http://bit.ly/1bYEHmm





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